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	<title>Comments on: The Designer Is Dead, Long Live The Designer!</title>
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	<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is/</link>
	<description>Suffering from chronic idiocy since 1977</description>
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		<title>By: Didier Hilhorst</title>
		<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is/comment-page-1/#comment-1690</link>
		<dc:creator>Didier Hilhorst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfluousbanter.org/beta/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is-dead-long-live-the-designer/#comment-1690</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Steven:&lt;/strong&gt;



You should not be sorry. You have the right to think I&#039;m wrong. I reply to this message because, as opposed to the first one, it gives me some room for debate.



If a lovely car has no engine the overall design is flawed. It&#039;s that simple really. Design is much more than just appearance.



I agree about user observation tests. User testing is a very important, if not crucial, aspect of usability and interaction design in general. In an ideal world every web site would have been user tested before going live. If you read my comments above (blog) you would conclude that I do not claim all usability experts blare random opinions. Add a little sarcasm and irony and I think you will get my point



I suggest you take a closer look at &quot;Don&#039;t Make Me Think&quot; by Steve Krug. Search buttons, navigation buttons, shopping cart buttons etc. are ubiquitous on the web and not without reason. I agree that a web site is more than an assortment of buttons, but they definitively are powerful visual cues.



If, after extensive user testing, it would appear that the shopping cart button is indeed a problem and that the main navigation text has insufficient contrast, the conclusion is simple: change it and improve it. I included examples not because they are perfect, but because they illustrate my point to some extend. Design is a trial and error process. Will I get it right the first time around? Unprobable.



I think you misunderstand (or atleast underestimate) the role of design in general. I&#039;ll end with a quote from Paul Rand&#039;s book &quot;From Lascaux to Brooklyn&quot;:



&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;There is no such thing as bad content, only bad form. This explains the place of form in art.&quot;*



*with few exceptions&lt;/blockquote&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Steven:</strong></p>
<p>You should not be sorry. You have the right to think I&#8217;m wrong. I reply to this message because, as opposed to the first one, it gives me some room for&nbsp;debate.</p>
<p>If a lovely car has no engine the overall design is flawed. It&#8217;s that simple really. Design is much more than just&nbsp;appearance.</p>
<p>I agree about user observation tests. User testing is a very important, if not crucial, aspect of usability and interaction design in general. In an ideal world every web site would have been user tested before going live. If you read my comments above (blog) you would conclude that I do not claim all usability experts blare random opinions. Add a little sarcasm and irony and I think you will get my&nbsp;point</p>
<p>I suggest you take a closer look at &#8220;Don&#8217;t Make Me Think&#8221; by Steve Krug. Search buttons, navigation buttons, shopping cart buttons etc. are ubiquitous on the web and not without reason. I agree that a web site is more than an assortment of buttons, but they definitively are powerful visual&nbsp;cues.</p>
<p>If, after extensive user testing, it would appear that the shopping cart button is indeed a problem and that the main navigation text has insufficient contrast, the conclusion is simple: change it and improve it. I included examples not because they are perfect, but because they illustrate my point to some extend. Design is a trial and error process. Will I get it right the first time around?&nbsp;Unprobable.</p>
<p>I think you misunderstand (or atleast underestimate) the role of design in general. I&#8217;ll end with a quote from Paul Rand&#8217;s book &#8220;From Lascaux to&nbsp;Brooklyn&#8221;:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;There is no such thing as bad content, only bad form. This explains the place of form in&nbsp;art.&#8221;*</p>
<p>*with few&nbsp;exceptions</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Steven Streight</title>
		<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is/comment-page-1/#comment-1689</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Streight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfluousbanter.org/beta/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is-dead-long-live-the-designer/#comment-1689</guid>
		<description>Sorry: you know very little about design and almost nothing about usability. 



&quot;Good design is de facto usable&quot;? Want to buy a lovely car with no engine? 



Usability pros proclaim &quot;random opinions&quot;? The good ones base their guidelines on User Observation Tests. 



&quot;Buttons make users click&quot;? Have you any idea of what you&#039;re speaking of? I conduct User Observation Tests, and the vast majority of users ignore graphic nav buttons in favor of main menu left column text links or top of page navbars.



&quot;I determined that...&quot; based on what? Oh, I see: random opinion. The shopping cart I can barely see. 



Your &quot;perfect readability&quot; is untrue: reverse white text on gray background is not &quot;high contrast.&quot;



Study more design theory and practice...study more usability research (www.useit.com)...get some more experience, then write an article for a web design magazine.



&quot;Design speaks for itself&quot; is only good for Picasso paintings that don&#039;t have to do anything for a client. Web sites are to be usable, not adorable. While immediate visual impression is what users base credibility on at first, the content is what retains users and brings them back to the site for more information, entertainment, or task accomplishments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry: you know very little about design and almost nothing about&nbsp;usability. </p>
<p>&#8220;Good design is de facto usable&#8221;? Want to buy a lovely car with no&nbsp;engine? </p>
<p>Usability pros proclaim &#8220;random opinions&#8221;? The good ones base their guidelines on User Observation&nbsp;Tests. </p>
<p>&#8220;Buttons make users click&#8221;? Have you any idea of what you&#8217;re speaking of? I conduct User Observation Tests, and the vast majority of users ignore graphic nav buttons in favor of main menu left column text links or top of page&nbsp;navbars.</p>
<p>&#8220;I determined that&#8230;&#8221; based on what? Oh, I see: random opinion. The shopping cart I can barely&nbsp;see. </p>
<p>Your &#8220;perfect readability&#8221; is untrue: reverse white text on gray background is not &#8220;high&nbsp;contrast.&#8221;</p>
<p>Study more design theory and practice&#8230;study more usability research (www.useit.com)&#8230;get some more experience, then write an article for a web design&nbsp;magazine.</p>
<p>&#8220;Design speaks for itself&#8221; is only good for Picasso paintings that don&#8217;t have to do anything for a client. Web sites are to be usable, not adorable. While immediate visual impression is what users base credibility on at first, the content is what retains users and brings them back to the site for more information, entertainment, or task&nbsp;accomplishments.</p>
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		<title>By: Didier Hilhorst</title>
		<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is/comment-page-1/#comment-1688</link>
		<dc:creator>Didier Hilhorst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfluousbanter.org/beta/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is-dead-long-live-the-designer/#comment-1688</guid>
		<description>Andrew: I agree with the point you are making. However I think people should remember that it&#039;s a column. It is my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. If I decide to seriously take on Nielsen or any other established name in the industry I would certainly think twice. I have nor the reputation or experience to be able to that at the moment.



I have an academic background and very well know which methodologies to use when I need to make a point and back it up with research or data. But a column is not the medium of choice in such a case. Moreover it&#039;s obvious that Â“usability experts disregard the role of attractivenessÂ” is a red herring, it&#039;s meant to be just that.



In my opinion (there we go again) I think a column is mainly about stimulating debate rather than to scientifically prove a point. If it looks as if I was trying to back up my opinions with data I did something wrong and maybe I was trying to hard. Some people might argue that hiding behind the term column is weak, but I beg to differ.



Some of my statements are to be taken with a grain of salt. I think &lt;a href=&quot;http://skinnyj.com/weblog/archives/000222.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my interview conducted by Justin Goodlett&lt;/a&gt; is a better place to read about what I think about the subject, without the bold and somewhat unbalanced statements. &lt;strong&gt;Sidenote:&lt;/strong&gt; I&#039;m currently doing research in the area which should be done in a few months. If everything goes as planned I will make it available to the public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew: I agree with the point you are making. However I think people should remember that it&#8217;s a column. It is my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. If I decide to seriously take on Nielsen or any other established name in the industry I would certainly think twice. I have nor the reputation or experience to be able to that at the&nbsp;moment.</p>
<p>I have an academic background and very well know which methodologies to use when I need to make a point and back it up with research or data. But a column is not the medium of choice in such a case. Moreover it&#8217;s obvious that Â“usability experts disregard the role of attractivenessÂ” is a red herring, it&#8217;s meant to be just&nbsp;that.</p>
<p>In my opinion (there we go again) I think a column is mainly about stimulating debate rather than to scientifically prove a point. If it looks as if I was trying to back up my opinions with data I did something wrong and maybe I was trying to hard. Some people might argue that hiding behind the term column is weak, but I beg to&nbsp;differ.</p>
<p>Some of my statements are to be taken with a grain of salt. I think <a href="http://skinnyj.com/weblog/archives/000222.html" rel="nofollow">my interview conducted by Justin Goodlett</a> is a better place to read about what I think about the subject, without the bold and somewhat unbalanced statements. <strong>Sidenote:</strong> I&#8217;m currently doing research in the area which should be done in a few months. If everything goes as planned I will make it available to the&nbsp;public.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is/comment-page-1/#comment-1687</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfluousbanter.org/beta/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is-dead-long-live-the-designer/#comment-1687</guid>
		<description>Hey Didier, one suggestion for future articles like this: when you go up againest Nielsen and the others, you go up against rather a lot of data, research, and often provable facts. You need to be able to argue against Nielsen with other demonstrably true facts. You shouldn&#039;t expect the &quot;design is subjective&quot; rationale applies to rhetorical arguments *about* design just because your topic happens to *be* design. 



Your article, while well-argued and good, kind of just comes across as your opinion. Now, it&#039;s an opinion that say, Paul Rand, agree with on many levels, there&#039;s no evidence to back up your assertions. Smiling faces inspire confidence and trust? According to whom? It sould be simple to find studies that prove this; you should cite them. 



Also, I think it&#039;s a red herring to claim &quot;usability experts disregard the role of attractiveness.&quot; Many people think this for no reason other than Nielsen maintains an ass-ugly website. I mean, Don Norman did write an entire book on this topic after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Didier, one suggestion for future articles like this: when you go up againest Nielsen and the others, you go up against rather a lot of data, research, and often provable facts. You need to be able to argue against Nielsen with other demonstrably true facts. You shouldn&#8217;t expect the &#8220;design is subjective&#8221; rationale applies to rhetorical arguments *about* design just because your topic happens to *be*&nbsp;design. </p>
<p>Your article, while well-argued and good, kind of just comes across as your opinion. Now, it&#8217;s an opinion that say, Paul Rand, agree with on many levels, there&#8217;s no evidence to back up your assertions. Smiling faces inspire confidence and trust? According to whom? It sould be simple to find studies that prove this; you should cite&nbsp;them. </p>
<p>Also, I think it&#8217;s a red herring to claim &#8220;usability experts disregard the role of attractiveness.&#8221; Many people think this for no reason other than Nielsen maintains an ass-ugly website. I mean, Don Norman did write an entire book on this topic after&nbsp;all.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is/comment-page-1/#comment-1686</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfluousbanter.org/beta/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is-dead-long-live-the-designer/#comment-1686</guid>
		<description>Very thought provoking.  I try to walk the line between down and dirty function and a pleasing design.  Like all things in life, there is a give and take.  There is no cookbook answer which fits all situations.  This is the reason we designers get paid the big? bucks to find the appropriate mix for a situation.  



If function only were king, the packaging industry would be down the tubes.  Everything would be in a plain drab box with the product name stamped on the front of the box in a plain font.



I believe a pleasing design will add to a users experience even if only on a subliminal basis.  But without good functionality, it will probably not serve the purpose of the site.



I have seen really pleasing to the eye sites which I have left after being left without knowing how to accomplish what I wanted at the site.



I look forward to reading some more of your thoughts</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very thought provoking.  I try to walk the line between down and dirty function and a pleasing design.  Like all things in life, there is a give and take.  There is no cookbook answer which fits all situations.  This is the reason we designers get paid the big? bucks to find the appropriate mix for a&nbsp;situation.  </p>
<p>If function only were king, the packaging industry would be down the tubes.  Everything would be in a plain drab box with the product name stamped on the front of the box in a plain&nbsp;font.</p>
<p>I believe a pleasing design will add to a users experience even if only on a subliminal basis.  But without good functionality, it will probably not serve the purpose of the&nbsp;site.</p>
<p>I have seen really pleasing to the eye sites which I have left after being left without knowing how to accomplish what I wanted at the&nbsp;site.</p>
<p>I look forward to reading some more of your&nbsp;thoughts</p>
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		<title>By: Mindaugas</title>
		<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is/comment-page-1/#comment-1685</link>
		<dc:creator>Mindaugas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Apr 2004 10:56:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfluousbanter.org/beta/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is-dead-long-live-the-designer/#comment-1685</guid>
		<description>Good article. I liked the most the thought that Web is still immature industry. Comments show that too ;o). 



On a bigger picture I tend to agree with Edusilva. In industrial/product design there is a thinking (theorethical at least) that aesthetic design (styling) people and engineers should work on product design project together from the very beginning--simultaneously. Only then can be designed a product in all its entirety (not relative, but absolute entirety in given circumstances) 



Why it can&#039;t be the same in web design with designers, usability experts and inforamtion architects? I think we can write it down to human nature--it&#039;s not the truth that stands between two opinions--it is a problem there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article. I liked the most the thought that Web is still immature industry. Comments show that too&nbsp;;o). </p>
<p>On a bigger picture I tend to agree with Edusilva. In industrial/product design there is a thinking (theorethical at least) that aesthetic design (styling) people and engineers should work on product design project together from the very beginning&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;simultaneously. Only then can be designed a product in all its entirety (not relative, but absolute entirety in given&nbsp;circumstances) </p>
<p>Why it can&#8217;t be the same in web design with designers, usability experts and inforamtion architects? I think we can write it down to human nature&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;it&#8217;s not the truth that stands between two opinions&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;it is a problem&nbsp;there.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Rubin</title>
		<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is/comment-page-1/#comment-1684</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Rubin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfluousbanter.org/beta/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is-dead-long-live-the-designer/#comment-1684</guid>
		<description>I think you hit it right on the mark Sunny, a very user-friendly summary of Didier&#039;s column :-)



This doesn&#039;t count as me posting to SB by the way -- I have some ideas which, as my free time increases over the next few weeks, I will begin to post. My goal is to return to a regular posting schedule, after digging out from under the insanely huge backlog of projects and obligations outside of the blogging/design world that has swallowed me whole over the last few months. I shall refrain from calling it a resurrection in light of the pending Christian holiday, though I&#039;m sure at least Didier would appreciate such a reference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you hit it right on the mark Sunny, a very user-friendly summary of Didier&#8217;s column&nbsp;:-)</p>
<p>This doesn&#8217;t count as me posting to <span class="caps">SB</span> by the way&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;I have some ideas which, as my free time increases over the next few weeks, I will begin to post. My goal is to return to a regular posting schedule, after digging out from under the insanely huge backlog of projects and obligations outside of the blogging/design world that has swallowed me whole over the last few months. I shall refrain from calling it a resurrection in light of the pending Christian holiday, though I&#8217;m sure at least Didier would appreciate such a&nbsp;reference.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunny</title>
		<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is/comment-page-1/#comment-1683</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Apr 2004 02:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfluousbanter.org/beta/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is-dead-long-live-the-designer/#comment-1683</guid>
		<description>The issue with most usability experts in the mould of Nielsen is that they perceive design as superfluous graphics. One can&#039;t really blame them since most early designers pushed the new medium and produced graphics overloaded which were nightmarish. 



A good design, an aesthetically pleasing interface takes into account what is necessary and what is not. The shopping cart for instance. No need to write &quot;shopping cart&quot;, web users get the idea behind. The function is clear. That to me is usability.



I may be accused of over-simplification, but I think this is what you are saying -- when you have user-focused design, usability comes free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue with most usability experts in the mould of Nielsen is that they perceive design as superfluous graphics. One can&#8217;t really blame them since most early designers pushed the new medium and produced graphics overloaded which were&nbsp;nightmarish. </p>
<p>A good design, an aesthetically pleasing interface takes into account what is necessary and what is not. The shopping cart for instance. No need to write &#8220;shopping cart&#8221;, web users get the idea behind. The function is clear. That to me is&nbsp;usability.</p>
<p>I may be accused of over-simplification, but I think this is what you are saying&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;when you have user-focused design, usability comes&nbsp;free.</p>
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		<title>By: Hasan</title>
		<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is/comment-page-1/#comment-1682</link>
		<dc:creator>Hasan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Apr 2004 23:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfluousbanter.org/beta/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is-dead-long-live-the-designer/#comment-1682</guid>
		<description>Excellent article, I followed your points easily as they were presented with great clarity.



Sweet irony, jharr, it seems you agree with the thrust of the article after all, as you redesign(s) for the upamn.org site show! What they have up now looks like useit.com, those you came up with are elegant!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent article, I followed your points easily as they were presented with great&nbsp;clarity.</p>
<p>Sweet irony, jharr, it seems you agree with the thrust of the article after all, as you redesign(s) for the upamn.org site show! What they have up now looks like useit.com, those you came up with are&nbsp;elegant!</p>
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		<title>By: Andrei Herasimchuk</title>
		<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is/comment-page-1/#comment-1681</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrei Herasimchuk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfluousbanter.org/beta/archives/2004/04/the-designer-is-dead-long-live-the-designer/#comment-1681</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;How dare you assume that usability folks are anti-design. Design is what we do.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;



While there are plenty of usability folk who value aesthetics in design, and see the purpose of a holistic approach to design to create quality products, until the usability field &lt;em&gt;en masse&lt;/em&gt; start to vocally reject many of the things that the likes of Jakob Nielsen has been saying publicly in the past ten years -- especially as it speaks to aesthics and design -- there will continue to be animosity.



Whose fault is that? Probably enough blame to go around, but I think everyone in the usability profession has take a burden a large portion of the negativity that occurs in this field and aim it squarely at the kind of tone one of the most vocal in the field has used. In other words, usbility professionals need to make it clear to someone like Nielsen that he needs to change his public persona. Quickly, before it reaches a point of no return.



I know if one of my heroes, like a Paul Rand or Edward Tufte spoke about about usability folk the way Nielsen has spoken about designers, I might still respect their work, but in no uncertain terms would I tolerate their public appearance as representative in my field. I would vocally request they stop it.



I checked out your site Jeremy, and it&#039;s quite well done. I don&#039;t think Didier&#039;s column was aimed at anyone specific, especially someone like you who seems to get it. 



But the profession is somewhat at a crossroads. I think it&#039;s time for many of those in the trenches start asking far much more of the leaders and experts in the field about how they speak. Then we can all get beyond it and focus on what it takes to get quality design into all of our lives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;How dare you assume that usability folks are anti-design. Design is what we&nbsp;do.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>While there are plenty of usability folk who value aesthetics in design, and see the purpose of a holistic approach to design to create quality products, until the usability field <em>en masse</em> start to vocally reject many of the things that the likes of Jakob Nielsen has been saying publicly in the past ten years&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;especially as it speaks to aesthics and design&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;there will continue to be&nbsp;animosity.</p>
<p>Whose fault is that? Probably enough blame to go around, but I think everyone in the usability profession has take a burden a large portion of the negativity that occurs in this field and aim it squarely at the kind of tone one of the most vocal in the field has used. In other words, usbility professionals need to make it clear to someone like Nielsen that he needs to change his public persona. Quickly, before it reaches a point of no&nbsp;return.</p>
<p>I know if one of my heroes, like a Paul Rand or Edward Tufte spoke about about usability folk the way Nielsen has spoken about designers, I might still respect their work, but in no uncertain terms would I tolerate their public appearance as representative in my field. I would vocally request they stop&nbsp;it.</p>
<p>I checked out your site Jeremy, and it&#8217;s quite well done. I don&#8217;t think Didier&#8217;s column was aimed at anyone specific, especially someone like you who seems to get&nbsp;it. </p>
<p>But the profession is somewhat at a crossroads. I think it&#8217;s time for many of those in the trenches start asking far much more of the leaders and experts in the field about how they speak. Then we can all get beyond it and focus on what it takes to get quality design into all of our&nbsp;lives.</p>
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