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	<title>Comments on: Websites Have Two Layers</title>
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	<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/03/websites-have-t/</link>
	<description>Suffering from chronic idiocy since 1977</description>
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		<title>By: web</title>
		<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/03/websites-have-t/comment-page-1/#comment-1605</link>
		<dc:creator>web</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Apr 2004 21:44:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfluousbanter.org/beta/archives/2004/03/websites-have-two-layers/#comment-1605</guid>
		<description>I can see how people can become sick of hearing the same old rhetoric, but still aren&#039;t &quot;99.5% of websites obsolete??Â” The good fight needs to still be waged, against tag soup, sloppy html and non-semantic code.



Although XHTML + CSS should never be a replacement for good usability design. Nor should it be implemented in order to increase profits ... isn&#039;t that what spam is for?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can see how people can become sick of hearing the same old rhetoric, but still aren&#8217;t &#8220;99.5% of websites obsolete??Â” The good fight needs to still be waged, against tag soup, sloppy html and non-semantic&nbsp;code.</p>
<p>Although <span class="caps">XHTML</span> + <span class="caps">CSS</span> should never be a replacement for good usability design. Nor should it be implemented in order to increase profits &#8230; isn&#8217;t that what spam is&nbsp;for?</p>
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		<title>By: Scrivs</title>
		<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/03/websites-have-t/comment-page-1/#comment-1604</link>
		<dc:creator>Scrivs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfluousbanter.org/beta/archives/2004/03/websites-have-two-layers/#comment-1604</guid>
		<description>Damn, never would have written today&#039;s post if I saw this. Oh well. Better to attack em from all angles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn, never would have written today&#8217;s post if I saw this. Oh well. Better to attack em from all&nbsp;angles.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/03/websites-have-t/comment-page-1/#comment-1603</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfluousbanter.org/beta/archives/2004/03/websites-have-two-layers/#comment-1603</guid>
		<description>Great post and comment Didier, I love your metaphor of a mathematical relationship. It shows the power of design relative to coding, and the all-important &quot;X factor&quot;!



Andy you&#039;re right about much standards talk being akin to preaching to the converted. On the web as in print, a good writer is one who elucidates that which is felt by many. I reckon there&#039;s been an undercurrent of discontent with standards-obsession amongst many designers, and thank god there&#039;s some relief coming now.



I was starting to think web design was all CSS coding there for a while!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post and comment Didier, I love your metaphor of a mathematical relationship. It shows the power of design relative to coding, and the all-important &#8220;X&nbsp;factor&#8221;!</p>
<p>Andy you&#8217;re right about much standards talk being akin to preaching to the converted. On the web as in print, a good writer is one who elucidates that which is felt by many. I reckon there&#8217;s been an undercurrent of discontent with standards-obsession amongst many designers, and thank god there&#8217;s some relief coming&nbsp;now.</p>
<p>I was starting to think web design was all <span class="caps">CSS</span> coding there for a&nbsp;while!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike P.</title>
		<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/03/websites-have-t/comment-page-1/#comment-1602</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfluousbanter.org/beta/archives/2004/03/websites-have-two-layers/#comment-1602</guid>
		<description>I agree with Arikawa, and feel that some more variety would be interesting. So, &lt;redfaced&gt; a quick check of my blog and all I see is css, standards and semantics! &lt;/redfaced&gt;



One thing I find though, and maybe it&#039;s lately, there&#039;s too much emphasis on the &#039;valid css/xhtml&#039; end and not enough on basic semantics &#8594; and I mean the kind you can read right from the specs.



Great comment Andy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Arikawa, and feel that some more variety would be interesting. So, &lt;redfaced&gt; a quick check of my blog and all I see is css, standards and semantics!&nbsp;&lt;/redfaced&gt;</p>
<p>One thing I find though, and maybe it&#8217;s lately, there&#8217;s too much emphasis on the &#8216;valid css/xhtml&#8217; end and not enough on basic semantics &rarr; and I mean the kind you can read right from the&nbsp;specs.</p>
<p>Great comment&nbsp;Andy.</p>
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		<title>By: Arikawa</title>
		<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/03/websites-have-t/comment-page-1/#comment-1601</link>
		<dc:creator>Arikawa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfluousbanter.org/beta/archives/2004/03/websites-have-two-layers/#comment-1601</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a bit of &quot;preaching to the choir&quot; tone to Greg&#039;s comments on Airbag, and I can&#039;t say that I disagree with him. Sometimes its a droll task to visit your favorites/check your feeds and find more of the same CSS/XHTML talk going on. But I think that may be due to the ever-changing mood of the creative rather than the relevancy of the topic.



It&#039;s easy for us &quot;in the know&quot; (sounds elitist, but its not my intention) to think that CSS/XHTML has been talked to death -- because we&#039;ve all followed it for so long.



But the fact is, not everyone is at &quot;our&quot; level yet. A new beginner is born every day. Having these resources freely and openly available to everyone is beneficial for the community as a whole -- even if it&#039;s all &quot;old-hat&quot; for some.



That said, I agree that there should be more discourse about user experience. Even amongst ourselves, if we have roughly the same % of good markup, its our design and user experience that set us apart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a bit of &#8220;preaching to the choir&#8221; tone to Greg&#8217;s comments on Airbag, and I can&#8217;t say that I disagree with him. Sometimes its a droll task to visit your favorites/check your feeds and find more of the same <span class="caps">CSS</span>/<span class="caps">XHTML</span> talk going on. But I think that may be due to the ever-changing mood of the creative rather than the relevancy of the&nbsp;topic.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s easy for us &#8220;in the know&#8221; (sounds elitist, but its not my intention) to think that <span class="caps">CSS</span>/<span class="caps">XHTML</span> has been talked to death&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;because we&#8217;ve all followed it for so&nbsp;long.</p>
<p>But the fact is, not everyone is at &#8220;our&#8221; level yet. A new beginner is born every day. Having these resources freely and openly available to everyone is beneficial for the community as a whole&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;even if it&#8217;s all &#8220;old-hat&#8221; for&nbsp;some.</p>
<p>That said, I agree that there should be more discourse about user experience. Even amongst ourselves, if we have roughly the same % of good markup, its our design and user experience that set us&nbsp;apart.</p>
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		<title>By: Didier Hilhorst</title>
		<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/03/websites-have-t/comment-page-1/#comment-1600</link>
		<dc:creator>Didier Hilhorst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfluousbanter.org/beta/archives/2004/03/websites-have-two-layers/#comment-1600</guid>
		<description>Accessibility and standard compliant code are a necessity. It is a given part of the equation. To express my thoughts in mathematical terms:



f(x) = a&lt;strong&gt;x&lt;/strong&gt; + b



Where f(x) is your website, a = design, x = the variables you include to shape user experience and b = (good) code. The small b is constant and should always be present. If not your equation will yield something different Â— something less good in my opinion.



I like to focus on a&lt;strong&gt;x&lt;/strong&gt;. Because it&#039;s what I love. But that does not mean I don&#039;t have respect for the people that talk about the b. It&#039;s all a matter of balance I guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Accessibility and standard compliant code are a necessity. It is a given part of the equation. To express my thoughts in mathematical&nbsp;terms:</p>
<p>f(x) = a<strong>x</strong> +&nbsp;b</p>
<p>Where f(x) is your website, a = design, x = the variables you include to shape user experience and b = (good) code. The small b is constant and should always be present. If not your equation will yield something different Â— something less good in my&nbsp;opinion.</p>
<p>I like to focus on a<strong>x</strong>. Because it&#8217;s what I love. But that does not mean I don&#8217;t have respect for the people that talk about the b. It&#8217;s all a matter of balance I&nbsp;guess.</p>
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		<title>By: DarkBlue</title>
		<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/03/websites-have-t/comment-page-1/#comment-1599</link>
		<dc:creator>DarkBlue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfluousbanter.org/beta/archives/2004/03/websites-have-two-layers/#comment-1599</guid>
		<description>Any website has to serve its target audience - that is so obvious it barely needs to be written.



If the purpose of a website is to sell product, then the principle area of any importance is the user experience (Can I find the product I want? Can I found the ancilliary information I need? Can I complete the purchase easily?)



If the purpose is to sell a design agency then the principle focus should be on the visual experience (I&#039;m not got to contract a designer who has an ugly website).



Corporate websites should be about information: shareholder reports, office locations (with all the necessary contact details), product/service information, document archives, etc.



For a personal &quot;home page&quot; there are no rules (waits for the flames).



But, I can&#039;t think of a single type of website that should NOT strive for accessibility and standards-compliance. Yet, today, only a small percentage of sites follow the rules. So, IMO, the websites that discuss CSS/XHTML/etc are not only appreciated by me personally, they are a necessity.



Web-designers the world over need these so that they can adjust their practices and transpose the old web with the new.



So I can only agree, we need to work hard on both layers (design and code) with about equal importance assigned to each.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any website has to serve its target audience - that is so obvious it barely needs to be&nbsp;written.</p>
<p>If the purpose of a website is to sell product, then the principle area of any importance is the user experience (Can I find the product I want? Can I found the ancilliary information I need? Can I complete the purchase&nbsp;easily?)</p>
<p>If the purpose is to sell a design agency then the principle focus should be on the visual experience (I&#8217;m not got to contract a designer who has an ugly&nbsp;website).</p>
<p>Corporate websites should be about information: shareholder reports, office locations (with all the necessary contact details), product/service information, document archives,&nbsp;etc.</p>
<p>For a personal &#8220;home page&#8221; there are no rules (waits for the&nbsp;flames).</p>
<p>But, I can&#8217;t think of a single type of website that should <span class="caps">NOT</span> strive for accessibility and standards-compliance. Yet, today, only a small percentage of sites follow the rules. So, <span class="caps">IMO</span>, the websites that discuss <span class="caps">CSS</span>/<span class="caps">XHTML</span>/etc are not only appreciated by me personally, they are a&nbsp;necessity.</p>
<p>Web-designers the world over need these so that they can adjust their practices and transpose the old web with the&nbsp;new.</p>
<p>So I can only agree, we need to work hard on both layers (design and code) with about equal importance assigned to&nbsp;each.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Budd</title>
		<link>http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/03/websites-have-t/comment-page-1/#comment-1598</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Budd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfluousbanter.org/beta/archives/2004/03/websites-have-two-layers/#comment-1598</guid>
		<description>Couldn&#039;t agree more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Couldn&#8217;t agree&nbsp;more.</p>
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